Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submitlogin

Tolerance would still mean that if Nazi neighbor needs help with his lawnmower, that you don't have a problem giving him a hand.

Don't throw away people's humanity because of one aspect you don't like about them. Even if they're your enemy. Seriously, differences are being treated like kindergarten cooties here. You don't catch Naziism by being civil to your neighbor, and we need civility overall.

But here's a problem: Everybody is labeling everybody else as effectively Nazis for any minor or major difference, thus justifying all civility being withdrawn.

Plus, people can change.



No and never. Tolerance means I don't shoot him for being a Nazi, even if I would like to. I can earnestly hope his lawnmower takes off a hand and that his cholesterol levels are none too good, and I remain tolerant of him. Toleration has nothing to do with being nice, it has to do with a recognition of legal status and human rights. Fuck your hypothetical Nazi and fuck his lawnmower.

What you describe is functionally the tacit endorsement of abhorrent views. Every moment of every day is political; act like it or don't, but you can't change that it is true.


If you replace "Nazi" with another word starting with N, you sound like a person from not too long ago talking about legal status and human rights as well. This has nothing to do with Nazis, it's a question of principle. Principles don't special case particular targets, they either stand or not. Substituting a different target certainly makes you sound like those you're railing against in the first place. Nazis are just an easy target.

> What you describe is functionally the tacit endorsement of abhorrent views. Every moment of every day is political; act like it or don't, but you can't change that it is true.

This is the root of the polarization that is tearing everything apart. The only life you'd be happy to live is one where you're only surrounded by those who are not "politically" divergent from you? Politicizing everything puts you at a fundamentalist war with everything.

This is demonstrably anti-freedom, and intolerance of the existence of differences. Sure, you can promote destroying differences that you don't like (I was going to say "political differences", but that's moot according to your outlook of all differences being political), but you're really speaking against fundamental tenets of western society so it becomes functionally moot.


Yes, if you replace the core of an argument with an abstruse strawman, it's a different, worse argument. That isn't particularly convincing.

Equating ethnic identity with a genocidal ideology is kinda fucked up, though.


The flip was equating it to perpetrating a genocidal ideology, with the same argument as used in lashing out against its perpetrators, because that's exactly the same stuff that's going through a genocidal maniac's head (or at least coming out of their mouths). But all my points stand.

It's too easy to label somebody a Nazi (or whatever label enables you), eliminate all civility and humanity from them, wish them nothing but death, and consider yourself righteous and tolerant for it.

It is better to err on the side of treating bad people with more respect than they deserve, than to err on the side of treating decent people with more hate than they deserve. Because your judgment of how bad or decent they are is at the very best based on incomplete information in the first place. Erring on the side of hate directly makes the world a worse place, and erring on the side of respect makes the world a more civil place.


The argument of "they're out to eradicate me and people like me" works better against Nazis because they're documented to have been doing that at scale. It doesn't work so well against people who've traditionally been on the receiving side of that sort of thing.

It's all fun and games to treat people with respect if you have nothing to fear from them and it lets you feel morally superior and all that, but at some point you gotta recognize that some people are right to be concerned and work against their persecution.

Again, taking an argument and misusing it doesn't actually weaken the original argument. It's possible for the perpetrators and the victims of genocide to use the exact same rhetoric against each other, but then it's on you to figure out who's being full of shit and not go "maybe the truth is in the middle between genocide and escaping a genocide".


It's not nearly as easy to label someone a Nazi as it is to label them that other word.


I'm not throwing away the humanity of Nazis. I'm acknowledging that their goal in life is to eradicate me and people like me, and that anything I can do to slow them down might save a life at some point. Time spent fixing the lawnmower is spent not agitating to have people tortured.

Tolerating certain politics as just "differences" in opinion is a luxury for people for whom politics are an intellectual exercise and maybe impact their bank statement at the end of the year, it's not affordable for those for whom it's a question of survival.




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: