Not in Denmark although a small country. In fact most European countries will have them insure themselves to the extend it's needed to be self employed to begin with.
Also the US insurance (and legal) system is a very unique one which other countries don't actually have. So not sure what you are worried about from that perspective.
In the US Uber provides insurance for all their drivers. Outside the US the drivers have to buy their own insurance.
In, for example, England the insurance is part of the regulatory burden. I know that a taxi in England has valid insurance. I don't know if an English Uber car has valid insurance.
Uber avoids the regulation, and under-insured cars is one risk of that.
> What difference could it make to you?
The car crashes and you lose a hand. This puts you out of work for a few months; makes it much harder for you to get new jobs; reduces your productivity. You'll need some modifications to your home. You'll need money. A properly insured car makes it easier to get that money.
In England, Uber is licensed as a minicab firm (taxicabs you can hire on the street, minicabs you must order through an operator, and the Uber app acts as the operator). Uber play completely fair with the regulation here (maybe the regulation was never as onerous as in the states). You can generally see on the side of the vehicle that it has the licensing from the appropriate council. The council won't license a minicab that doesn't have insurance.
That means Uber in England at least is obeying local laws. In other countries Uber is not registering and licensing as the local equivalent of minicab, that's why they are getting banned.
I think Uber should want to obey laws in the territories that it is trying to operate in. To not do so is just picking the wrong kind of fight.
Even with public health care you're going to need money.
England has public health care, but you're going to want a better prosthetic and you're going to want money to make adaptations to your home over what will be available. And you're going to want money to cover your reduced income while you're off work.
So liability insurance - isn't that generally required by law in European countries? I know it's illegal to own a car w/o such insurance in Denmark, for instance.
Yes, everyone has personal insurance that covers your car for personal use. You can't register a car without that in all places I know of.
The issue is they also must have insurance that covers them for business use when they are using their car for business. Every personal insurance policy I've read says it isn't in effect when the car is being used for business purposes. If I tried to file a claim under my personal automobile policy it would go something like this
"...and you were driving for Uber at the time? Yeah...lol."
In 'Europe' also there are many damages you will be left hanging with if whoever caused your damage is not insured. If you think you're golden when something happens to you because you live in Europe, you're in for a rude awakening in case something would happen. There are many personal injury lawyers across Europe. They just don't make as much money because of no punititve damages.
(Example off the cuff, was on tv a while ago: girl gets ankle damaged in accident at car show. Yes the foot gets the plaster 'for free', but here are some other costs that aren't covered by national insurance: travel costs, time off for parents, adaptation to the house to accommodate reduced mobility, wheelchair-accessible car, ...) Please tell me if I'm wrong, but I know of no social healthcare system that covers such costs).
I'm not sure why you keep mentioning the US, I'm not talking about the US.
The only reason I mention the US is because Uber takes care of the insurance for Uber drivers in the US, but they don't do that anywhere else. Everywhere else the drivers are expected to buy the insurance. In some places you know that Uber are regulated as part of the taxi system and so you know the drivers will have bought insurance as part of that regulation. But that's not everywhere.
Properly insured cars are really important, even when you live in an area with public health care and welfare systems. There are many costs involved in severe injury that are only minimally covered by public welfare.
This is not a super rare event! About 1,700 people die each year in road traffic accidents in Great Britain. (And that's the lowest it's been since records began). Very many more are severely injured.
In England you'll get minimal help from public welfare systems - you'll get a prosthetic limb but you'll want a better one, and that will cost. You'll want to make adaptations to your home - you'll get some help, but you'll want more and better adaptations. Depending how you're employed you'll get some statutory sick pay or disability benefit, but these are likely to be much less than you were earning. (Statutory sick pay is £88.25 per week for 28 weeks.)
My original point was that Uber because of it's use of technology have solved the problems that would normally require licenses. I.e. it's as safe to drive as any other service.
Insurance is a minor problem which 1) can easily be fixed, 2) isn't really a problem with the uber model.
Yes, sure, the medical bills will be paid to an extent. But what about you losing your income? Making your home fit for being disabled? Rehabilitation? (Public system pays only the bare minimum here).
Well, in my country at least (NZ), everyone automatically has insurance to cover all of that for accidents. It's called ACC. In exchange for that, we have a "no-fault" system so you can't sue someone for an accident making the concept of liability insurance for accidents something that doesn't exist here.
That's nice for people getting injured. Insurance then becomes something you get to protect yourself, not because you're required to have it to protect other people. If you crash into an expensive car, you're still on the hook for the cost of that unless you have your own insurance. But that's a decision you can make yourself if you're worried about the risk of causing expensive damage - no need to worry about whether every car you go near is insured.
Does public healthcare help you if you need to install a wheelchair ramp in your home? Or other lifestyle modifications that are a result of injury? Such as increased costs of transportation? Lost wages?
As parent said, the USA market is unique. How do you know your taxi has suitable insurance! Or insurance at all? Insurance laws in China are completely different from the US (everyone is seriously under insured, even the normal taxis).
I have no idea about England. Not everyone lives in England, some of us even live in Asia. My point is that Uber should follow the laws of the countries they are in, and if those laws are holy (in the sense that adequate insurance is not enforced or not apparent), then that is a problem with the laws, not Uber's business model.
How would I know the driver has an insurance which covers driving people for profit? The usual insurances do not. If something would going to happen to a passenger they do not know whether that is covered.
Well that seems to be a problem with legislation not the uber model per se. Just don't see the problem but then again I don't live in the UK so I don't hear about all those examples of that happening.
The legislation is already there: If you drive around you need insurance. That is a sensible policy. Uber saves cost because neither they nor their drivers are appropriately insured. It's only a matter of time until something bad happens.
It's not a problem of legislation but a problem with Uber.
I don't see the issue. Most european countries have insurance either via the wellfare state or through legislation or insurances. What do the passenger care about drivers insurance for? If anything Uber is not going to leave just an inch of potential room for critique so of course they are insured as you need to be just in order to own a car.
In England all car drivers need insurance. But car drivers who carry passengers need extra insurance.
In the US Uber buys this extra insurance for all their drivers. Outside the US Uber does not buy this extra insurance. It tells drivers that they have to buy their own extra insurance. Remember, this is extra insurance on top of the regular insurance that all car drivers must have.
In some countries Uber drivers are regulated just as normal minicabs, and the regulators will check that the uber driver has this extra insurance. But in some other countries Uber is aggressively resisting that regulation, and there are concerns that the cars are not properly insured.
Imagine if you lost an arm tomorrow, or had a brain injury. You may get all your hospital treatment for free. You may get all the prosthetic limbs for free. You might get some paid leave from work. But even so, you are going to be left with large costs. Those costs are covered by insurance. But if you were a paying passenger in a car, and the car driver did not have the extra insurance, you would not be covered by their insurance. You would not get the money you need. You could try to sue the driver, but if the driver is poor you're unlikely to get the money.
Perhaps it would be prudent to have disability insurance on yourself and not worry about the driver's insurance. How do you know that drunk driver that hits you while your crossing the street has insurance? How does anyone know anything? Insure yourself, the it makes no difference what other people are doing. It's called personal responsibility. Definitely a foreign concept in Europe, but not completely extinct.
Think about this.. In a normal taxi, how do you know the driver has insurance? Perhaps it has expired. It's no different than any other kind of business. Relying upon someone else to be insured is just foolish.
I love that you think personal responsibility means me having to pay in case somebody else hits me with a car. Rather than them being personally responsible for their driving into me.
Regardless, the way insurers generally work is that they will try to recover the cost of damage for the responsible party. So, for example, if you have homeowner's insurance and somebody drives into your house, your insurer will pay you and then try to recover the costs from the the driver's insurance company.
You know most cars/business have insurance because the state checks that. Sure there may be some who get by for a little while but the system is very effective for the most part!
There is a difference between a regular car insurance (which indeed everybody is required to have) and a commercial car insurance. The former excludes damages while transporting passengers for profit which is fine according to law and will not pay if an Uber driver has an accident.
I do not need to fear that nobody is going to pay my healthcare after an accident. However, that is paid by the public at large instead of the one responsible (so Uber shifts liability away from them to society). Additionally, nobody is going to reimburse my other damages, such as loss of earnings if the driver can't pay.
Insure yourself. Why would you not have disability insurance or protection against lost wages? That's foolish. What if you fell down the stairs? Are you going to shift that burden onto society because you failed to insure yourself?
That's not the point. Of course I can insure myself. But the price of my insurance and everybody else's is calculated with the knowledge that in case of a traffic accident they don't need to pay. As traffic accidents are the most common this significantly reduces the premiums. If more and more drivers are not appropriately insured they need to recalculate that.
This is shifting the burden to society, in the name of unnecessary high premiums for those who insured themselves.
You will have same issue when driving with a friend of your no. Or are you saying they aren't covered in the UK then? That seems to be easily fixable.
Again sure you can blow it up to be a big problem but it's easily fixable and doesn't in itself take anything away from the original point which started this weird insurance thread.
There's a big difference between your buddy paying you $20 to take him to the airport couple times a year and regularly giving strangers rides where you expect to make a profit.
Even if you picked up a hitchhiker and they gave you $20 for your troubles that hitchhiker is not your customer and you don't regularly drive around looking for hitchhikers to make a profit.
It's actually pretty straightforward. That's why the term "sharing economy" is so disingenuous; nothing but doublespeak.
In the US you need something called Ride Share Insurance.
I couldn't find a price quote, but I imagine it's not cheap.
Your current policy holder is not required to offer this special insurance. They can cancel you if they feel you are driving for Uber without telling them.
No beefs with Uber, other than stop fooling with vechicle requirements, and fees. You're hiring independent contractors?
Oh yea, whatever you do don't go into debt over Uber. Buying a new Prius to work for this company seems rediculious.
